While YouTube magician Chris Ramsay was in New York giving a talk about his work (which, according to Ramsay, should be up in the next week or so), he took a few minutes to offer his thoughts in the video above on how magicians and magic fans should communicate with people about magic. For him, there are two audiences—the people who want to simply be amazed, and the people who want to know how everything works—and both audiences are valid and should be catered to. He likens it to the symbiotic relationship between a clockmaker and the clock collector; one cannot exist without the other. “There’s a certain tact to [how magicians should talk about method],” Chris says in the video, “but at the same time, we should commend the curiosity of those who want to know it’s done.” Figuring out that line between secrecy and openness, though, is the tricky part.