Penn & Teller: Fool Us has become a destination of sorts for budding magicians; a place where performers looking to make a name for themselves by trying to pull the wool over the famous duo’s eyes in an attempt to win an opening slot at their show in Las Vegas. And whether you successfully fool them or not, you’ve got a killer demo reel for your portfolio to show off to potential clients.

If you’re at a point in your career where you’re trying to appear on Fool Us, you’ll want to listen to this week’s episode of the Discourse in Magic podcast, which features an interview with Michael Close. Close is one of two magic consultants for the show, and has recently released a series of instructional books called Paradigm Shift, and even hosts a free online course called Magician’s Masterclass – so he knows a thing or two about what makes a good trick for television. The hour-long podcast is a great listen, covering everything from his background in magic to the best way to hone your routine for a television audition.

You can listen to the episode directly on the Discourse in Magic website, or subscribe via iTunes, Android, or the RSS feed.